MANSONs of Caithness anyone?

Have had another great find from DNA testing this week.
Although I do suspect that at least part of it was under my nose, un-analysed from a while ago.

One of my larger matches on 23andme shared genomes, ie we can now see the details of where we match.
Turned out to be at a spot I already knew about two other, smaller, matches and had got as far as determining that we shared some unknown ancestor back up my father's side somewhere.
Needle in haystack.
But the haystack has just got quite a lot smaller.
It is looking far more likely to be my Caithness ancestral lines.

Although none of these matches were on GEDMatch where we could compare across all three companies, one had helpfully tested on both 23andme and on FamilyTreeDNA.
Where I could see that he matched not only myself, but also the late David FINLAYSON, and David's 1C1R who shares his James COGHILL and Isabella WATERS (married 1873 Dunnet, Caithness) as their most recent common ancestors.

But did I also match David there? Not according to FamilyTreeDNA.

Back to the wonderful GEDMatch to see if there was a match below the matching thresholds FTDNA apply. Yes, just below the FTDNA threshold, two segments, totalling 17cM in all, one right where I wanted it to be.

I don't, to my knowledge, have any known COGHILL or WATERS direct ancestry, but we all do have MANSON families - who doesn't if your ancestors come from Caithness? Not that I can see any immediate connection, but somewhere, somewhen, there is a common ancestor who gave us that shared bit of dna on chromosome 13.

My known MANSON ancestry is more from Watten, tiny bit further south than Olrig/Dunnet etc.

Love to hear from anyone with any of the above MANSONs in their ancestry, particularly if you've ventured into DNA testing for genealogy so we can share research and genetics, and hopefully begin to pinpoint which family lines are involved.

Pity that it didn't show up as David's paternal side as we had always considered that our FINLAYSONs just might be related, just back from the beginning of parish records in Bower.
Looks to be a bit far for atDNA to prove, even with the inter-related Caithness families ensuring dna survival beyond the normal expected inheritance probabilities down the generations.

My RootsWeb WorldConnect database LornaHenderson will be updated shortly to include the relevant bits of the above pedigrees, or more accurately, the one or two missing linkages to connect up people already there, as many of David's "cousins" married my "cousins",  in Caithness, Australia, and New Zealand.

Chromosome map update

Inspired by the GRAHAM dna story over the last two posts (and finally figuring out an easier way to produce the formatted data required), here's the current state of own chromosome maps.
I don't yet know whether any traces of this GRAHAM dna can be detected in my own genes (as opposed to my maternal aunts') as not all of those involved have uploaded to GEDMatch, yet, for the smaller segments to be checked.

The links to the respective surnames involved are to one of WikiTree's wonderful DNA features.
Just some of the more distant lines identified are added as labels on this post.

Paternal side map, ie my Dad's HENDERSON and DAVIDSON ancestry (Surnames involved):

Maternal side map, ie my Mum's ANDREWS and ROWE ancestry (Surnames involved):

Quite a few empty spots to go yet, not sure I'll live long enough to fill in all the gaps.

Loose end tied up

Over the years I'd often idly wondered whether or not there was a connection between my BAIN ancestors from Caithness, and those of a BAIN family with origins supposedly from Caithness, who lived in my childhood district (Central Otago, NZ).
Failing a connection to mine, what about one to the other BAIN family who also arrived in Dunedin about the same time, give or take 10-20 years, in the 1860s/1870s?
Attempts at connecting the latter BAIN family, that of William and Jacobina (MANSON) BAIN to my BAINs had failed, but we did end up connecting them, distantly, by the MANSONs.

The Central Otago BAINs worked back to a William, butcher, brought up in Kaikourai, Dunedin, emigrating about 1857 from Wick with his parents.
His marriage certificate said his parents were a George & Jessie BAIN and the most likely candidate was George Traill BAIN in Dunedin, BUT George and Jessie hadn't married until 1864, which didn't really "fit".

This week an idle web search brought up an article in the Otago Daily Times (the Dunedin paper) about a BAIN family reunion last year for descendants of George Traill BAIN and included a snippet that George had emigrated with wife Elizabeth, dtrs Catherine and Margaret and son William, in 1862 on the Silisia, wife and an infant dying on the voyage. George's cousin Janet later coming out to look after the children, and then marrying George.
Bingo.
This was sufficient information to identify the likely family as being that of William BAIN & Catherine SUTHERLAND of Thurdistoft (1841) then Tain (Catherine, 1851).
A fellow member of the Caithness Family History Society's message board had provided their 1841 census details some years ago, and it included Margaret, Catherine and William, of the right ages.

After all that it doesn't look as if they're likely to match my BAINs of Latheron (Clashscribie), but it was a satisfying loose end tied up.

29th: Manitoba MANSONs

As a result of yesterday's findings, I've updated the BAIN descendant chart to show where these MANSONs fit.
WorldConnect db LornaHenderson updates yet to come.
Had to laugh at the effect of a Scottish accent on a Canadian census enumerator.
James and Catherine Isabella (BAIN) MANSON's son George Gordon was enumerated as Church G MANSON.
Looks like one daughter (Jane Elizabeth) died tragically young (10), and that the eldest daughter Ellen Alice, married an Edward BOYES.
The above George may or may not have married an Eva ROBINSON, who also died young (22), but I don't have enough evidence for that leap as yet.

28th: Catherine found, family rumour solved

Some years ago I unravelled some discrepancies about a couple of Catherine BAINs, one the dtr of James BAIN and Helen SUTHERLAND, the other the dtr of Donald BAIN and Maggie TAYLOR.
The latter died 1904, the former couldn't be found in Scotland.
I think I've found her.

While checking off some of the British Guianian FAIRBAIRNs who had emigrated to Manitoba, I strayed off into checking off what else I hadn't already checked against the Manitoba BDMs, and against the 1916 Canadian Census, available again now. (Interesting indexing on the FAIRBAIRNs, they were indexed as FAUBARIN, with a birthplace that clearly read British Guiana, but was indexed as British Columbia, took me a while to find them!).

In checking off the Manitoba BDMs, I re-discovered the family of James and Catherine Isabella MANSON in Brandon, whose 1891 marriage was indexed with Katherine as BARIE.
However, today's checking of a son's birth clearly showed her as Catherine Isabella BAIN, and a census showed her as born Jul 1866.
This just happens to match the data for Catherine, dtr of James and Helen (SUTHERLAND) BAIN. Her husband James MANSON's sister Elizabeth married Donald BAIN, Catherine's brother, and descendants of Donald and Elizabeth (MANSON) BAIN had family letters that indicated a connection between the families, but didn't know what it was.
QED, a successful conclusion to the day.

Decided to branch out in my DNA studies, and add in another of my main research lines. I've applied to set up a WIGHT project. The pages are rather preliminary, as FamilyTree DNA haven't yet approved it as a project, but none currently exists, and it doesn't seem to be claimed by WHITE or WIGHTMAN as an alternate name.

Caithness gets some overdue attention

The flurry of activity on the Caithness GRAY family as a result of Bobby finding and sharing his updated info on Ann SINCLAIR nee GRAY shows that several notes to myself several years ago to investigate whether or not Catherine GRAY's sisters married x and y have been proved to be valid hunches.
We've done a lot of digging and swapping our finds over the last couple of days.
Another sister also survived well into civil registration times, living to age 93, Barbara GRAY, married James McGREGOR, lived at Baderyrie, Latheron.
That leaves the fates of sisters Elizabeth and Isobel GRAY to be determined.
For some time I'd wondered if Isobel was the one who married John SUTHERLAND, but that isn't the case. However, investigation of this did lead me to correct what I had on that family on my WorldConnect database LornaPotential, which will show these updates shortly (her parents weren't Alexander GRAY and Margaret SUTHERLAND, but David GRAY and Christian BAIN);
Newly connected surnames for my GRAY family now include: GUNN, more SINCLAIRs, MUNRO, BAIKIE, McLAREN; Places are: Thurso; Mid Clyth; Stemster; Lybster; Duffus (Moray); Charlestown (Little Dunkeld, Perthshire);
Mysteries: What happened to Mary SINCLAIR and Alexander GUNN, married 1860 Lybster, appear in 1861 census at Mid Clyth, then vanish.

Also did some work on the Tongside GRAY families, whom I'm sure do connect in somehow, if only I knew how/where: Alexander & Margaret (SUTHERLAND) GRAY, who lived next to my William & Isabella (MANSON) GRAY, as did their respective descendants over the years.

Both Rootsweb WorldConnect databases are in the process of being updated, so use these links to access them until the indexing catches up over the next 2-3 days: LornaHenderson, LornaPotential.

Meet John BAIN & Sinclair MANSON

The newfound BAIN descendants have progressed enough for it to be time for a update to my main WorldConnect db: LornaHenderson.

And with all this activity on the BAINs I thought it was also long overdue for my BAIN 2*great-grandparents to be out on the web, so meet Sinclair MANSON and John BAIN. They've taken rather longer than a lot of the more recent finds, it being a fact of my genealogical life that my much older research isn't as cleanly documented, so each bit I touched meant I had to tidy up several others!

Mar 2, 2008: Which William ROSIE?

Contacted by a ROSIE researcher on GenesReunited wondering if we had a match on William who married Margaret McADIE.
Her tree definitely showed a William of the right age and married to Margaret, but gave William's parents as Alexander ROSIE and Charlotta MANSON, whereas William's 1867 death cert says his parents are Alexander ROSIE and Elizabeth MANSON, so the jury is still out.
Mistake on death cert or another couple? At least one other tree (on WorldConnect) shows the same as her.
Nonetheless it did prompt me to check for a few more twigs, so now Elizabeth Jane, dtr of David Sinclair Wemyss McADIE & Margaret BAIN, has been found in 1901 with her husband William MacKAY and two daughters with a string of names each.

Assorted descendant charts updated: DAWE, ROWE, McADIE.

Also re-investigated MyHeritage, the site GenCircles morphed into.
Looks like they've fixed a few of the initial teething troubles, so have reloaded my basic BMD data there.
The smartmatching that was a good feature of GenCircles appears to be working.

Caithness connections

Mostly BAIN, and TAYLOR updates. Another two for the price of one job. With family info that a sister of George Manson Henderson BAIN was a unmarried postmistress of Thurso, I decided to eliminate the sisters by checking for marriages where I didn't already have one. Found Jane/Jean Henderson BAIN had married James GUNN (1919 Halkirk), then looked at the cert. above it, only to find it was another BAIN, one Daniel William BAIN. Who didn't initially ring bells but turned out to be from a different BAIN family (the Harpsdale BAINs, George the stonemason who married into my TAYLOR family). I'd not traced this family much beyond 1881 until now. I've now found that one son, stone mason David, moved from Halkirk to Edinburgh, and dtr Violet helped keep the family surnames at a minimum by marrying a James MANSON (1909 Halkirk), not that he immediately looks connected to my Watten MANSONs.

Back to the Manitoba BAINs: still can't find Donald, James and George's emigration to Canada, followed by Alexander, but I now know Alexander can't have gone till after his 1923 marriage to Jane ROSIE, and that Donald said 1909 in the 1911 census. If I've found the right James in 1911 he thinks he came to Canada in 1911, which conflicts with family info that they came together, but with a fairly illegible birth month and year on the census I've really only got a near enough age and an occupation including CPR to go on.

James attestation papers show he married a Ruth Anna sometime before 1915, but the marriage doesn't appear in the Manitoba records that I've found.