Hidden in plain view

I do so love serendipity in genealogy.

Researching to answer a question on a list I monitor, about what may or may not have been possible when downloading family tree data out of FamilySearch* I decided to try using my own tree as the guineapig.
For some reason I chose James TURNBULL, my 2* great grandfather.
No idea why, I've not recently been working on the family at all.
If I had been, what I found might not have been a surprise, as I would have diligently noticed that the gaps in his information may well have been able to be filled long before now :).

A busy beaver (thank you Ellen) had attached an immigration passenger list to James' son James, whom I had assumed to have died in Cumberland prior to their emigration to New Zealand by around 1862/4 ish (according to conflicting death certs for the family).
Not that I'd ever found a satisfactory death entry for him in England.

James, Jane and all four children had departed from Liverpool in April 1862, arriving Melbourne in September.

Son James' 1863 death cert. shows they were living at Geelong, where James was working as a carpenter.

Some 20+ years ago I had painstakingly searched the assisted immigrants into New Zealand for James and Jane and concluded that they were not assisted here by the NZ government.

My excuse for leaving things there was that 20+ years ago records were by no means as easily accessible as now.
It's a poor excuse however as I could easily have subsequently checked the Victoria (Australia) to New Zealand - 1852-1923 migration fiche, which would have shown me  Mr James, Mrs James, Robert, Stephen and Ellen all on the "S.S. Tararua" departing Melbourne on the 10 Aug 1866.

Which date is 4 years later than implied by James' 1891 NZ death cert, and 2 years later than that implied by daughter Ellen's.
Where they disembarked however remains to be discovered.

Take your pick! My assumption is Wellington. The next snippet of previously gleaned information was that James was in Tikorangi when son Robert fell from a horse breaking his arm in 1873.
Which I suspect was meant to be Huirangi instead.


This information was definitely worth updating my website for.
James' entry on my webpages is now a little more complete and should shortly be even more so, as I've found that Archway has digitized the Taranaki Land District Primary Deeds Indexes 1856-1998. So instead of heading for Wellington, I'm working my way through assorted books online in the comfort of my own home, checking to see which relative bought, mortgaged or sold which parcel of land, swapping out every so often to the New Plymouth City Council Maps to figure out where each Lot was.

All because of a casual, completely unrelated, enquiry. 


*
The query was whether or not a gedcom from FamilySearch FamilyTree was
a) possible,
b) included the Memories and Photos attached.
The short answer being no.
The long answer: https://familysearch.org/ask/salesforce/viewArticle?urlname=GEDCOM-Frequently-Asked-Questions-FAQs&lang=en

But you can use those programs that integrate with the tree, eg RootsMagic and Legacy, to download (or upload) the basic data, just not the Memories and Photos.

First the bridesmaid, then the bride

Another example of why it pays to advertise, ie publish your research, and the gaps.
In my inbox today arrived a certificate and a note  saying "I think I've found the first wife of the Rev. Robert TURNBULL for you".
Sure enough!!
The Robert on the cert. was shown as a schoolmaster, son of a carpenter Robert.
So far so good.
Even better, one of the witnesses was a Dav[id] STEVENSON.
The Revd Robert's son Robert, later Sir Robert of the LNWR, is to be found in the 1871  census as a visitor in the household of a David STEVENSON, a railway manager, born Islington, MDX.

And just to make even more certain, another of the witnesses was one Louisa Philippine MAES.

Timeline:
Jan 1843 Robert marries Mary Ann LIVOCK, daughter of John LIVOCK, Coal Merchant.
Nov 1844 Robert marries, as a widower, Louisa Philippine MAES.

Now to find Mary Ann's death.
One possibility in Pancras looks a few short weeks prior to Robert's marriage to Louisa!!
There are others to investigate.

My benefactor was interested in the LIVOCK family because of John William LIVOCK the architect who had designed railway stations.
He had added that Mary Ann's sister Eliza married David STEVENSON, the witness, and with whom (Sir) Robert was in 1871.
This branch of the TURNBULL family does seem to attract railway connections.

Now I'm on the hunt to identify Mary Ann and Eliza's mother as she appears to have been born in Cumberland.
This family may well do a full research circle, Cumberland to St Pancras and back to Cumberland. 

Focus!

One of the reasons touted for using genetic genealogy aka DNA testing is to focus attention on lines that match.
Well that's the theory anyway.
For Y-DNA, a mismatch when a match was expected just tends to make me want to explore further.
For FamilyFinder I keep straying off to try and figure out the unfigurable, but having a lot of fun in the process.

This post is prompted by a set of FamilyFinder results from Harry, a 4th cousin.
They clearly show the expected relationship to my 2nd cousin (his 4th) at a predicted "2nd to 4th cousin level", but I only show up as a predicted 5th to remote cousin.
Such is the randomness of atDNA.
Our shared papertrail traces back to the Scottish Borders from my paternal great grandmother Helen Sinton WIGHT.

But wait there's more.
My match is actually not from the known paternal side of our shared ancestry - other than some small segments shared between the three of us under the FamilyTree DNA radar, but can be spotted when comparing raw data on GedMatch.

Harry also shows up as a 5th to remote match to my maternal first cousin, her mother, and our aunt. All of whose ancestry, bar one line from Cumberland, is very firmly Devon/Somerset. None being known areas for his ancestry.
Closer examination shows that this is not coincidental as yes, each match each other, as do I, at the same part of chromosome 11 (along with some smaller segments).
I can feel myself being drawn off my current investigations (GRAY of Caithness - again) to explore further, even though I know in my heart of hearts that we'll probably not find the link.

As a result of this, a page dedicated to my Cumberland ancestry has been added to my webpages.

If you have taken a FamilyFinder test and match Lorna, Harry, Jillian, Grace or Ruth on Chromosome 11, please consider joining the FFLornaHen project on FamilyTree DNA so we can explore this further!

The accuracy of family info

It should come as no surprise that family information, filtered through several sets of ears and many years, may not actually be accurate.
Latest instance popped up in one of my HENDERSON families.
I'd been told, several years ago, that "Peggy married Joe and had two children..." with Joe later being named "GOODWIN".
The statement turns out wrong on several counts but the one that prompted this entry was being found by Peggy's daughter and learning that Joe GOODWIN was actually two separate husbands, one a Joe HEANEY, the other a George GOODWIN.
So far Joe HEANEY's existence is only partially confirmed in a child's surname, and Margaret/Peggy's marriage to George, back down in Cumberland (from Biggar), but it does seem to be a step or two closer to reality.
The HENDERSON chart has been updated to reflect at least some of the additional twigs now on the tree down from Archibald, brother of my great grandfather William.
Look forward to more updates Liz, great to chat to you.

BATY/TURNBULL

Thank you Annie.
Annie has posted on my Guestbook a death notice from the Carlisle Journal, Saturday 11 Oct 1834, transcribed by Petra Mitchinson (on the Cumberland Rootsweb list)

"At Glasgow, on the 1st inst., in childbed, Ann, wife of Mr. John TURNBULL, and daughter of the late Mr. Wm. BATY, of Hornick Hill, near Longtown, in this county, aged 30 years, much respected." (I've changed the Hall to Hill)

This has to be the Annie born 1804, daughter of my William BATY and his second wife Mary SIMPSON.

With this hint FamilySearch shows that the "in childbed" refers to a daughter born, and died, 24th Sep.

Wonder if John TURNBULL connects to my other Arthuret and Nicol Forest TURNBULLs?

The only marriage found to date is in Glasgow of a John TURNBULL, chaise driver, to Ann BEATTIE in May 1934.  Can anyone claim them and/or disprove that this couple is the above John and Ann?

Ignore the BATY recent change index entries for 6th April other than Ann, the others were just typo fixes.

Calverts of Cumberland

In my true (dis)organised style, I strayed back into one of my Cumberland families today, which will result in some small updates sometime soon to my WorldConnect db LornaHenderson.
William CALVERT showed up as a(n incorrect) match to another on OneGreatFamily, so I thought it was time to identify him a bit more accurately to avoid a repeat.
In the process I learnt where Torpenhow and Blennerhasset were, and helped another chap with his William CALVERT, given ancestry told me that he'd claimed the same entry on the 1881 census as I did for William, the problem being that the census entry showed him as single and younger than his married chap born the same place but several years earlier.
My connection to this chap is actually his wife Martha Maria SCAIFE.

Cumberland to Clerkenwell

Great to hear from Bridget again re assorted TURNBULL/GRAHAM snippets.
She kindly sent me both a photo of the Canonbie headstone of Robert & Helen TURNBULL, and the obit of my 2*great grandfather James TURNBULL, which had appeared in the Carlisle Patriot - and very fulsome it was too. (I've now remedied the oversight that he had missed being published on my web pages).
The obit completely confirms that I've correctly identified his brother John as the one married to Isabella MARTIN, as the copy of the "Huirangi papers" obit has an addenda: "Mr Turnbull was a native of Haithwaitegate near this city and brother of the late Mr John Turnbull of White Close Gate".
In addition Bridget sent a transcript of the death notice for Frances SCAIFE (nee GRAHAM) which confirmed my suspicion that she was the 1856 death registration in Penrith.
Fossicking around as a result of these I've now found the original of the marriage of Jane GRAHAM and John SCAIFE (parents of the above Frances' husband William SCAIFE) in St Bennet Grace Church, London, and see not only was the date different to that I had entered (15th March not Sep), but that the witnesses included a Jane BATY and Richard GRAHAM.
I assume the latter is her brother, but who is Jane BATY, presumably also so far from her Cumberland home?

Wouldn't you know it...

As soon as I decide there's a lull on updates to the visible, published, data, along comes a bunch more, just after I've updated the online databases!

Thanks Bobby, the GRAY updates will appear in due course.

Bobby saw my posting (page down to my one) on the Caithness.org forum asking for GRAY descendants who might be interested in proving a theory about two GRAY families in Watten, Caithness, by joining the GRAY DNA project.

He then acted on a hunch about a BRUCE in his tree, and sure enough, found an additional daughter for the family of William GRAY and Margaret SUTHERLAND.
There's a Margaret who married a William MURRAY and lived at Olgrinmore, Halkirk (1851).

Behind the scenes however, Harry and I have been having fun sorting out his STEPHENSON family of Edinburgh, formerly Kelso, Ancrum, Gifford, and as he's just found out, Cumberland, thanks to Sonia in Mississippi. I'm just tagging along for the ride as there's a WIGHT connection in there that one day we may prove is related to the other STEPHENSON/WIGHT connection that makes us distant cousins.

TURNBULLs (and excitement ) squared

What, December already? Doesn't time fly when you're having fun. Which I am.
Still working thru all the new Americans being added to the Devon TOZER branch (probably wont show up on the bottom end of the KING chart as mostly too recent).

And as if that isn't enough excitement for one week, but along comes a wonderful coincidence.
On the TMG Conference Cruise, I met up with Chaye from Sth Australia who was researching her mysterious OLIVER and TURNBULL couple who had the misfortune to die where death certs are not very informative.
I was very interested to note that one of the sets of parents she was investigating for her Elizabeth TURNBULL was a couple by the name of James and Agnes (ELLIOT) TURNBULL. They appear on the IGI as having children in the geographically challenging area of Dykehead, Kirkandrews, Canonbie, Dumfries.
Well, I suppose the submitter wanted to hedge their bets, and certainly the couple did too as they lived in Dykehead (which just happens to be the place of the comment "some more of those Americans dear" from the Nov 28th entry), in Kirkandrews Parish, Cumberland, but their children were baptised in Canonbie Parish, Dumfries, across the Border in Scotland.
Must be something about the air over there in this Turnbull family.
Anyway. I'd parked this as intriguing info to be investigated at some stage to see if there was any connection with my Robert TURNBULL, joiner of Dykehead, of about the same timeframes.
Today, that got raised up the priority list somewhat following receipt of an email from Robin in Canada asking about my Robert in Dykehead.
Yes, he was a descendant of said James and Agnes (ELLIOT) TURNBULL (but cannot solve Chaye's Elizabeth mystery, more's the pity).
We quickly decided that James and Robert could not be brothers. A 1764 baptism of a legitimate son to Walter and wife in Dykehead, just didn't fit with Walter, Robert's father, marrying as a bachelor in 1774.
However, James' likely mother was Betty also TURNBULL. Not that his baptism said so, but there were a string of Canonbie baptisms to Walter and Betty, several of which stated "in Dykehead", so it was an easy stretch to continue the string of children with the 3 "and wife in Dykehead".
That was James handily placed, but the connection to Robert still unsolved.
And then I examined a list of Canonbie baptisms Robin had downloaded from Scotland's People and noticed that I hadn't all the children of Walter and Betty (TURNBULL) TURNBULL after all. There were two sons I'd missed, a Robert and a Walter, which latter, got me quite interested in a hurry.
Sure enough, his baptism clearly showed he was the son of Walter TURNBULL and Betty TURNBULL in Dykehead, Parish of Kirkandrews. And what's more, a 1745 date dovetailed very nicely as a really good age to be marrying in 1774 and having children in Dykehead, to continue the family tradition.
No wonder I'd not been able to find a suitable baptism for him in England.
TURNBULL chart updated

Luck changed on LUCOCK

And another hunch verified. Agnes Gair HENDERSON, of Great Clifton, dtr of Archibald HENDERSON, joiner, did marry Joseph LUCOCK, also of Great Clifton, widowed butcher, s/o Reay LUCOCK, farmer. Bit annoyed with the certified copy I received, has the Parish as Wokington, not Workington, and Joseph as LACOCK and Reay as LAYCOCK, instead of LUCOCK. Wonder why I didn't get the normal photocopy?
Casting around for Joseph's first marriage I found a likely looking one in 1909, to an Annie, wait for it, HENDERSON. There's a likely death of a 25 yr old Annie LUCOCK in 1912 in the right area, and an age of 25 would make her highly likely to be Agnes' elder sister. The plot thickens. It looks like a nephew of Joseph's (Albert Reay LUCOCK) emigrated to NSW.

Back to BAINs & no luck with LUCOCK

Hope to get Thomas SCOTT on the web soon as I've had fun chasing assorted Cumberland SCOTT families around the records the last couple of days. No great conclusion re Eleanor's relationship to them though. Someone, somewhere might hold the key to where Eleanor fits in.

Also hope to get out an update to my WorldConnect db LornaHenderson as there seems to have been a sudden rush of updates.

GenesReunited hot matches has put me in contact with another of the BAIN/SUTHERLAND/THOM descendants in Australia, so that's a few more dots on i's and t's crossed (how are you meant to write that, doesn't look right with "is" for plural of i!). Thank you Peter M., 4th cousin once removed. The BAIN chart has therefore had a few twigs added.

Received a reply from the LUCKOCK researcher, but dipped out on enough information to solve the Agnes Gair HENDERSON & Joseph LUCOCK marriage mentioned below, at least not without paying for a certificate anyway.

Linda H called my attention to the McGREGOR GenForum activity in response to one of her posts. Looks like we've been found by another HENDERSON descendant of Margaret H, sister to my James H. Not sure where as yet, but her husband is a descendant of James Addison McGREGOR.

Update: digging around from the hints on GenForum and the fact that Canada might be a good place to find James, I came up trumps as he started off in Ontario where I can access BDM data online via Ancestry, and there were a couple of dths in the British Columbia index too so the HENDERSON chart has a few extra twigs under James McGREGOR now.